Comments on: Basic Civil Rights V. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – Part 2 http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/ Poorly Spelled, Properly Thought Out. Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:38:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: David Ward http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-473 David Ward Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:04:12 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-473 The way these two have handled this is irresponsible in a truly shameful way. I have known Matt and Derek for a long time (Matt since the age of 15). Matt initially came out to me- and I was his roommate when he and Derek first began dating. When these events came to the fore, I was immediately skeptical. To be clear, I am neither Mormon, nor any fan of that church. However, Matt is a full-blown alcoholic who openly prides himself on being a manipulator (although he calls it “social engineering.”) I think the left-wing community of Utah (myself included here) needs to look at events like this with a keen eye. We readily accept any report of church misbehavior because we want to call them the evil empire, but it doesn’t take a genius to read the reports and see what really happened. They were drunk, making a scene, refused to leave when asked, and argued with security and the police. It is reported as such in the paper and in the police report (posted here: http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2009/0714/20090714_063104_templepolicereport.pdf) All these two have done is manipulate the Utah gay community, creating greater animosity between the left and the church. Playing the “gay card” to either create a bigger scene or get out of personal responsibility is truly deplorable. They cried wolf, and let’s be honest here, the church DOES discriminate against gay men and women. But this is not an example of that. This is two rabble-rousers making a scene and using the animosity to their advantage. The more we allow ourselves to be hoodwinked by people like this, the more we on the left look foolish, and the less likely people are to listen to us. Matt and Derek should be ashamed of their unabashed exploitation of this social scene. We, as Utah liberals, should try to assess situations with reason, and in doing so, let ourselves be correct more often than not. The way these two have handled this is irresponsible in a truly shameful way. I have known Matt and Derek for a long time (Matt since the age of 15). Matt initially came out to me- and I was his roommate when he and Derek first began dating. When these events came to the fore, I was immediately skeptical. To be clear, I am neither Mormon, nor any fan of that church. However, Matt is a full-blown alcoholic who openly prides himself on being a manipulator (although he calls it “social engineering.”)

I think the left-wing community of Utah (myself included here) needs to look at events like this with a keen eye. We readily accept any report of church misbehavior because we want to call them the evil empire, but it doesn’t take a genius to read the reports and see what really happened. They were drunk, making a scene, refused to leave when asked, and argued with security and the police. It is reported as such in the paper and in the police report (posted here: http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2009/0714/20090714_063104_templepolicereport.pdf)

All these two have done is manipulate the Utah gay community, creating greater animosity between the left and the church. Playing the “gay card” to either create a bigger scene or get out of personal responsibility is truly deplorable. They cried wolf, and let’s be honest here, the church DOES discriminate against gay men and women. But this is not an example of that. This is two rabble-rousers making a scene and using the animosity to their advantage. The more we allow ourselves to be hoodwinked by people like this, the more we on the left look foolish, and the less likely people are to listen to us. Matt and Derek should be ashamed of their unabashed exploitation of this social scene. We, as Utah liberals, should try to assess situations with reason, and in doing so, let ourselves be correct more often than not.

]]> By: Dustin http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-469 Dustin Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:42:42 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-469 JA, Im sorry, bigot. Please JA, enlighten me, what would you call it? You call it acceptable, because you are a bigot yourself. Emotion? you mean like embarrassment? Please, JA, get your dictionary out and look it up. Its clearly the reason you were responding to what I had to say. You also made no comment about this article. Did you even read it? What are you looking for JA? Some meaningless argument about the definition of racism? What is your point? You have no point! You are a hypocrite JA, just like Pro "Truth" and Anthony. JA,
Im sorry, bigot. Please JA, enlighten me, what would you call it? You call it acceptable, because you are a bigot yourself.
Emotion? you mean like embarrassment? Please, JA, get your dictionary out and look it up. Its clearly the reason you were responding to what I had to say.
You also made no comment about this article. Did you even read it? What are you looking for JA? Some meaningless argument about the definition of racism? What is your point? You have no point!
You are a hypocrite JA, just like Pro “Truth” and Anthony.

]]> By: JA http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-468 JA Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:01:48 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-468 Hey Dustin, before you ever try and blog again please look in a dictionary, the book works in alphabetical order, please look up the word racist, i mean your embarrassing me. Also it is much better to use your logic in an argument rather than your emotions. Cool off before you reply, you might have a chance at looking somewhat intelligent. Hey Dustin, before you ever try and blog again please look in a dictionary, the book works in alphabetical order, please look up the word racist, i mean your embarrassing me. Also it is much better to use your logic in an argument rather than your emotions. Cool off before you reply, you might have a chance at looking somewhat intelligent.

]]> By: Cat http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-461 Cat Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:22:06 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-461 Did they have the right to detain you with handcuffs? Or, would this be considered kidnapping? Did they have the right to detain you with handcuffs? Or, would this be considered kidnapping?

]]> By: Sunday in Outer Blogness: Freedom and Sunstone Edition! | Main Street Plaza http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-459 Sunday in Outer Blogness: Freedom and Sunstone Edition! | Main Street Plaza Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:32:22 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-459 [...] was detained by security and handcuffed for a kiss on the cheek on church property. The story is told from the horse’s mouth (hat tip MoHoHawaii), and was covered in the paper here. As a follow-up, we have a partial [...] [...] was detained by security and handcuffed for a kiss on the cheek on church property. The story is told from the horse’s mouth (hat tip MoHoHawaii), and was covered in the paper here. As a follow-up, we have a partial [...]

]]> By: Bradford Boston http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-458 Bradford Boston Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:22:08 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-458 I feel really sorry for the mormon church... One day they will move forward with the rest of the world... I personally know Matt and Derek and they are both reliable and incredible people.. I feel really sorry for the mormon church…

One day they will move forward with the rest of the world…

I personally know Matt and Derek and they are both

reliable and incredible people..

]]> By: Charlie http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-456 Charlie Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:40:23 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-456 As an LDS person I just want to say that I have no hatred for homosexuals. Yet I often feel hated by homosexuals. I don't care what you do as long as you're not breaking any law, you're business is you're business as long as it doesn't affect me. People have a double standard. One day they're pointing out (and rightly so) that hatred is wrong; and the next day a letter arrives to the Salt Lake temple with white powder threatening to be anthrax. Don't lecture the LDS church about discrimination, we know a thing or two about it. And I'm not just talking about 150 years ago, I have had rocks thrown at me because I am LDS. As an LDS person I just want to say that I have no hatred for homosexuals. Yet I often feel hated by homosexuals. I don’t care what you do as long as you’re not breaking any law, you’re business is you’re business as long as it doesn’t affect me. People have a double standard. One day they’re pointing out (and rightly so) that hatred is wrong; and the next day a letter arrives to the Salt Lake temple with white powder threatening to be anthrax. Don’t lecture the LDS church about discrimination, we know a thing or two about it. And I’m not just talking about 150 years ago, I have had rocks thrown at me because I am LDS.

]]> By: Allen in LA http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-455 Allen in LA Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:13:41 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-455 Living in Los Angeles, and knowing of the MILLIONS of Dollars of hateful support that the LDS recently spent to help pass Proposition 8 (their ads on TV here were loaded with OUTRIGHT LIES), I am pleased that this incident is now hitting the national news media. There is growing support from a majority of Americans for equal rights for gays, and hopefully this incident at minimum will make more Americans nationwide aware of what they are REALLY about. Hate is unacceptable in this country, including the obvious hatred of gays by the Mormon Church. Just like the Scientologists, they are an evil cult of hate-mongers who use their vast influence and mega-money in an attempt to affect our politics and our laws, even outside of Utah. The people of SLC should take back that land under imminent domain. Living in Los Angeles, and knowing of the MILLIONS of Dollars of hateful support that the LDS recently spent to help pass Proposition 8 (their ads on TV here were loaded with OUTRIGHT LIES), I am pleased that this incident is now hitting the national news media. There is growing support from a majority of Americans for equal rights for gays, and hopefully this incident at minimum will make more Americans nationwide aware of what they are REALLY about.

Hate is unacceptable in this country, including the obvious hatred of gays by the Mormon Church. Just like the Scientologists, they are an evil cult of hate-mongers who use their vast influence and mega-money in an attempt to affect our politics and our laws, even outside of Utah. The people of SLC should take back that land under imminent domain.

]]> By: jj http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-454 jj Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:26:23 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-454 If the men were drunk and out of control, why were they not cited for public drunkness and disorderly conduct? If the men were drunk and out of control, why were they not cited for public drunkness and disorderly conduct?

]]> By: KC C http://blueinredzion.com/2009/07/basic-civil-rights-v-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-452 KC C Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:02:45 +0000 http://blueinredzion.com/?p=598#comment-452 I have been to temple square many times with my boyfriend and yes I am gay. Its a beautiful spot and I think we may have held hands before or kissed. We have never been asked to leave or were we obvious and in doing it for show. I truly believe these guys did more then just a little kiss and hand hold. I am sure they were doing it for attention and to prove a point. I wouldn't show up to a Jewish synagogue and set up a pork hot dog stand and not expect them to have an issue with it. It's about showing some respect for peoples property and beliefs. I would be equally disappointed if people were putting Marriage is between one man and one woman on their lawn without permission. I have been to temple square many times with my boyfriend and yes I am gay. Its a beautiful spot and I think we may have held hands before or kissed. We have never been asked to leave or were we obvious and in doing it for show. I truly believe these guys did more then just a little kiss and hand hold. I am sure they were doing it for attention and to prove a point. I wouldn’t show up to a Jewish synagogue and set up a pork hot dog stand and not expect them to have an issue with it. It’s about showing some respect for peoples property and beliefs. I would be equally disappointed if people were putting Marriage is between one man and one woman on their lawn without permission.

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