Breaking:
So a friend of mine informed me, by way of Facebook status updates, that he was, he claims, illegally detained and charged with a Class C Misdemeanor for trespassing on the Main Street pedestrian mall in Downtown Salt Lake. The reason, he claims, is that he was holding the hand of his gay partner.
As I said, this is breaking and the facts are not in – however I would not be surprised to hear if it was entirely true.
For those of you who don’t recall, the Salt Lake City approved the sale of a section of Main Street in Downtown in April 1999 to the Mormon church from South Temple to North Temple, effectively connecting the LDS Temple grounds with the LDS Offices. The debate was heated as the land would effectively become private property and events, such as this, could (in theory at the time) be prosecuted. In the end the Church won and we see the symptoms of this victory today – assuming it is true.
But is it right?
Unlike the block housing the LDS Temple, the area is completely open and accessible to the public – indeed, I have cut through the area from time to time with no trouble whatsoever. The area offers no physical restrictions and to someone who knew nothing of the Mormon culture, would assume it was a park area (all be it with an interesting choice in architecture). Now these two are long standing residents of the state and city, but my point still stands.
How would we be viewed by the national press if this had been a couple from another city our country? Is this how the Church really wants to be perceived – especially after the the whole Proposition 8 dust up? Furthermore, it should not be forgotten that the Church “does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family.”
One would reasonably assume that holding hands is far less of an attack against “traditional marriage” than, say, allowing gay couples to enter into mutual contracts. Yet, if these allegations are true, here we are.
So what is more important, your First Amendment right to peaceably assemble and pass through an area, unknowingly trespassing, or arresting people because you think they are ookie? I have no doubt that they broke the actual law, but did they break the spirit of it?
P.S. Any posts that reference a religious verse or doctrine directly will be blocked – this is a legal issue and, therefore, requires a legal response. Furthermore, morality is not the dependant on any particular religion, rather it is the concept that we should be good to one another; therefore, replies regarding morality in a religious context, too, will be blocked.
Update: Read the account of this from one of the individuals arrested by clicking here.
Update: Salt Lake Tribune reporting, Deseret News reporting (the only one who acknowledged this blog directly – thanks Clayton), Q Salt Lake reporting, CBS 2 Reporting, ABC 4 Reporting, KSL 5 Reporting, Fox 13 Reporting.
The huge problem here is that a grenade is being used to fend off a mosquito. As far as I understand, the plaza is private church property (whether it should have been is another story) and I agree that they have a legal right to regulate it. But to arrest people (who I am biased towards because they are my friends) is an absolutely ridiculous way remedy the situation. Ask them to leave is the simple, smart way this should have been handled.
I think this comes down to a property rights issue. Does an entity that owns a piece of land have the right to dictate who can and cannot enter that land? In my opinion, absolutely! However, I think there are some circumstances that should be considered.
However, I also think that this “Pseudo-public property” is nothing but a farce. If the church wanted the land to be used freely by anyone then it should allow anyone on the property regardless of sexual orientation. However, if they are going to restrict access then it should be advertised in all main entrances (the same way they advertise that guns are not allowed in their meeting spaces) as well as privately patrolled by their security and reported as necessary.
Dylan,
I agree that, as a purely land-rights issue, the Church’s actions were justified. But I also feel that there is a greater issue that, like Kyle was saying, is a gross overreaction that originates out of fear and hatred.
This is what concerns me.
A dominating power is repressing people for no other reason that that they disagree with them – this concept is counter to liberty and the ideals of our republic.
The lawsuit filed by the ACLU put it perfectly
““The bottom line is that city residents and visitors alike will continue to pass through the Plaza and be ‘funneled’ to the City’s central commercial and shopping district, but as they do so they will be subjected to the LDS Church’s point of view without the ability to respond with views of their own, at the risk of being jailed for ‘trespass.’”
However in our case it was because we were showing affection to each other. We weren’t bothering anyone. In fact, we were on our way through. we weren’t even lingering around in there.
The excessive use of force on the part of their thugs is uncalled for. At no time did we threaten them or were violent to them in any way. They threw Derek because he’s small.
All they had to do was ignore us and we would have been through there in under a minute. Instead they thought it’d be fun to try and harass the gays.
It is pretty obvious that you have only 1/2 of the story.
1. Was there was more going on or said?
2. If not, someone was grossed out, complained, and some church security person asked the two to leave, they refused to leave private property and were arrested.
I don’t know which, and you don’t seem to either. Since the Church didn’t arrest them, and some cop didn’t only because they were holding hands, you don’t have all your facts yet.
Arc,
You are correct, which is why I made numerous references throughout the post that I did not have the full story and that nothing was confirmed.
As more details come in, I will update the post accordingly.
These are extraordinary accusations and they require extraordinary proof. I trust the source, though, which is why I decided to place this post in the first place.
[...] Basic Civil Rights V. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints [...]
No public displays of affection? Does that mean my wife and I can not hold hands there? And what about wedding pictures?
Hypocrites!
Things in utah are weird. The LDS church (cult, really) still thinks it is in control of everything and everybody. Yeah, they carry a lot of weight, but every time they do something stupid like this, people think, was that really necessary?
I was once a member. I left because I knew it was a bunch of bull. I hear people around me who THINK I am still a member say things like “Gays will burn in hell, Gays deserve everything they get, Somebody ought to kill that gay.” It just goes on and on.
LDS people get it from their leaders. Yes, LDS people are bigoted, liars, phoney and given any opportunity, thieves.
It does not surprised me at all that the LDS Gestapo did this. I am sorry to say bad things this happen with some frequency to gays in Utah. I know this. enough said.
[...] Basic Civil Rights V. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints [...]